Survey: the reasons why I won't use Cocos Creator

Cocos Creator was created to be an awesome GUI editor. It replaced our Cocos Studio product which wasn’t living up to expectations.

We are continuing the efforts because we feel the product is improving with each release and we have plans to continue improving it. We dedicate a large number of staff to just working on Cocos Creator.

I hope that future offerings help improve this workflow. I still think we need to put effort here.

@phero_constructs isn’t a troll. I believe he is asking a serious question. The wording on your question was misunderstood by myself also so I think he may have been wondering what you were asking too.

I’m not sure I’m getting your attitude in regards to this. If you like the product, use it, if you don’t, go pick up something else.

If you paid these guys a big sack of money I could understand your looming anger, otherwise, there is really no point in being hostile.

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No worries. I’ll mark you down as not trolling, oblivious.

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You’ve avoided the WHY question.

Why was Cocos Creator created?

What do you mean why?

It was created to be a GUI editor. That is why.

I apologize but I really don’t understand if you are trying to get to more than that. Can you explain more?

You’ve answered the question of “What is Cocos Creator?”

Why would the parent company decide to invest resources into creating a JS powered GUI Editor for a JS derived version of a C++ engine that’s derived from an Objective-C engine that’s derived from a Python engine?

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If you’re curious as to why I think this is pertinent to the core tenet of this thread’s question, here’s some of this:

Users considering Cocos2D-X must contend with the poor explanations of what that engine is, and its contrived bending of C++ to a more Objective-C (as used on cocos2D-iPhone) approach, and an incredibly opaque set of reasonings for the work that goes into it.

On top of that, there’s now a branch of the engine that’s Cocos Creator, where a lot of things are said about this tool, in a very positive manner, but with a degree of ambiguity and obfuscation that’s quite odd. It’s hard to know what this thing is, and what it generates, and also why it exists.

And it’s a GUI… but it’s unbelievably clunky. It’s as if there was no design effort other than “let’s do Unity-lite”. Worse, this is done without understanding any of the things that make using Unity appealing, nor what’s bad about using Unity, either. So not only is there a lack of design effort, there’s a complete lack of realisation and filtering of what’s good and bad about the (apparent) source of inspiration.

Further, there is zero indication that anything was learnt from what made Flash good/great as an IDE for 2D interactivity.

But, probably more telling, there’s no effort to make JavaScript friendly to use. In the effort to clone Unity, it’s apparent there’s been some effort to make JavaScript look and feel like C#. I don’t think that’s a step forward.

This means it’s better to use Unity for anything other than lightweight HTML5 target platforms. Of which, the most significant is WeChat, by a very long margin. And that’s been known to be the case since long before the release of Cocos Creator, even in western commentary of Asian trends: https://www.techinasia.com/html5-gaming-inside-wechat

It looks, to me, like Cocos Creator is a tool that your company uses for making ad games for WeChat, and tests on the public for paths to improvement because there’s no design talent available, beyond “let’s do Unity-lite for HTML5” and, as sideways goal: “it would be good if the tool’s output could be bound/parsed to Cocos2D-X”.

Is that the reason why it exists?

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@confused you seem to have some kind of objection to the very existence of Cocos Creator based on the fact that it supports WeChat embedded games.

Now, whatever else might be said about Cocos Creators Unity Lite approach, or the fact that its similar to Flash, the simple fact is that in the space of H5 game development there are not a lot of good WYSIWYG type editors.

Any small studio - based in Asia or the west - looking for a designer friendly environment for H5 games is not going to find a lot of options superior to Cocos Creator. Personally, as someone who used cocos2d-x in the past and who looks forward to c++ becoming the to the fore again - I’ve also been using Unreal Engine for larger projects and I think its Blueprint system is fantastic at making coding designer friendly. I think Cocos Creator could benefit a lot from integrating node based graphical scripting.

A few of the reasons why I even chose Cocos Creator as my game engine and game development tool was because the easy collaboration in the CC GUI with non-technical designers. It’s so easy to create scripts, layouts, prefabs and everything that designers can affect the games without knowing anything about programming. I’ve seen many companies where they iterate design implementation over and over again because designers can only make mock-ups and are never able to touch the actual software.

I also chose it because of the JavaScript and even more so TypeScript support :slight_smile:

I think you need to understand that everyone is different, creating different things and looking for different features. Luckily there are many options for game engines out there for everyone!

No. This is an entirely incorrect presumption.

I don’t think you’ve come near to understanding my question.

It remains: Why was Cocos Creator created?

Was it, as I’ve posited as a first point of hypothetical discussion, because the founders were/are desiring an engine to make HTML5 games for WeChat in an easier, faster manner?

Or was it something else?

I do not care, either way.

I’m simply trying to understand how it became what it is, by asking the question WHY did it come to be what it is.

From there, with a modicum of rational thinking, it’s possible to understand how and why it appeals to others, and what’s needed to make it appealing to others and (the point of this discussion) why it might put off others.

This is not about me, nor my opinions. I’m trying to begin a real discussion of why it is what it is, how it came to be, what it is, and what it can be. That can only be done in earnest manner if the former and current motivations of the product team can be honestly understood.

Without that, any amount of conjecture, surveying, anecdotal evidence and proclamation of the obvious is just pointless banter.

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Sure thing, I’ll leave you to it. Meanwhile I’ll go do something productive :stuck_out_tongue:

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I apologie again, but I told you why it was created. it was created to be a GUI editor. It wasn’t for WeChat or Facebook games originally. It was based on Fireball-x, another GUI editor. The developers of Fireball-X came to work for the company and Fireball-X became Cocos Creator.

I dont really have more to say about this that I think helps you out. For us the Why was to solve a need. It is also the What of the product too.

@confused At first, I want to say that all you described exactly what I see and understand too, but with more precise words. And also, I tried to say that before, but with my eng. level that’s hard) and as result nobody listen simple words like - editor is wrong.

Yea, and same was with Cocos Studio 2 and 1(don’t know how it’s called, wasn’t user of cocos2d-x that time) and now current editor.
And finally, “solution” for all this is to create an all new editor from scratch… but it’s impossible, so as I said before… it’s just a question of time.

Can I ask why do you stay with Cocos products?

Every topic you can, you say “it’s just a matter of time”. You disagree with design decisions. You disagree with the status of development. You pass along to others FUD that you simply make up in your own mind, despite folks telling you otherwise.

So why do you stay? There are other engines. You have proclaimed yourself a top engineer. You talk about SBX every place you can. Why not focus on things you seem to feel more positively about than our products?

What you fail to take in is that as a company we are trying to do what we think makes a great game engine. If we fail we try again. We can’t make everyone happy with every product.

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Sure, you can ask actually anything from me :slight_smile:

I’ve started my game using cocos2d-spritebuilder aka cocos2d-iphone, which is using Objective C. Development was long and later it was abandoned and cross-platform games stated as requirement. With all my game code I had only one choice - convert it to C++(which in that time I never used). And my wonder was that conversion was smooth, simple and interesting. I saw how is Objective C almost the same vs C++ in simple code, but yea, I should write more code for the same result… but for faster result, my game is faster with C++ in all aspects.

But I’m not sure why you said “Cocos products” - it’s just cocos2d-x C++ engine only for me and nothin else, nothing more.

In some sense I’m a hostage. I’ve done too much work for my game with cocos2d-x and C++, I can’t just start over and rewrite my game to another engine.
But what other engine? Seriously, the choice is only one - Unity, but I hate it… and now I like power of the C++ and probably will stay with it for a long time…

Don’t know why you think that way but probably not engineer, but designer, director or product chief manager :smiley:

Because it’s much more closer to cocos2d-x C++ engine than anything you’ve done already and doing currently. However, I don’t understand why do you care, because SpriteBuilderX is open-source and I can’t try to get some revenue from it later. I’m telling about it just because it’s simple UX editor with simple functionality, but enough for developing casual game UI’s. So I just wanted to share it, so people know that it’s currently only 1 editor mostly closed to C++ engine and connected with it.

Because cocos2d-x is dying, I have the same feeling and view as it was for cocos2d-iphone. Users leave from here and new users, who just wanted to try it, getting too much struggle on the way and big wall of confusion, not working stuff and very old and poor examples.

Thats what I’m talking about, another EOL. But actually, with that as I said main engine, cocos2d-x itself is under risk. It’s hard to get analytics but I’m sure that more and more devs and companies moving away from here… for sure to Unity.

Overall you just don’t want to listen me. I will tell you only once - create a new nice design(UX and core) editor and try to monetize it, with such you could probably exists as company in future.

Thanks for replying. I hear your story. It feels familiar.

It’s because you said this.

Sharing is fine. We have a category for sharing your products. What you do is being it up every time you can. That isn’t sharing, its promoting your product while you complain about ours.

Like I have said, your opinion. I have told you that it isn’t but you dont care what I have to say.

I didn’t mean an EOL, I meant that if we make a mistake, we try again. We have EOL’d a few products. Cocos Code IDE, Cocos Launcher, Cocos Studio. We had very compelling reasons for those. We didn’t take it lightly.

It’s not that I don’t listen. It’s that you don’t stop complaining about it over and over and over and it isn’t productive. You disparage us every chance you get, then expect us to take you seriously when you have something to say. I can no longer tell if you are being sarcastic or have a legitimate point. I have always passed along every one of your concerns to our team. Every one.

It’s not my product, ohh common. It’s developed by Viktor Lidholt and started a long time ago. By the way It’s UI&UX design is what you should looking into and overall idea of connection with the engine… And it’s can’t be even called promoting, because what’s the point? I will never get or ask any money from SBX it’s open-source. Complaining about editors you made and any other editor here - it’s really not connected things.

So when you understand that creator is same mistake product as studio you will re-create it from scratch and made it with C++ and for C++ ? Just by saving it’s name or smth? But thats I call EOL.

Can they answer this:
https://retro.moe/2017/04/16/cocos2d-in-a-glimpse/

I coud add now - not try to clone Unity.

Why don’t they do exactly what Ricardo said? For sure, I’m asking about Qt editor similar to CocosBuilder build on top of cocos2d-x C++ so fully using C++.

And for sure not adding more 3D and be in that place where 2D is a core…