Windows Game Contest!

Look further up in this thread, the game does NOT have to be free.

Guys, I really do not understand what means

Creativity (25%): How creative is your use of the development tools and assets in your App?

Explain me, please. Maybe, give some examples of this “creative” using

creative: resulting from originality of thought, expression, etc.; imaginative

So if you submit a Flappy Bird clone, a 2048 clone, a Candy Crush clone, these are examples of NOT very creative.

Submit an original idea/concept.

This is the biggest problem with such contests. Developers should really think about it. They are basically giving away their concepts and ideas for free, without getting anything back, as the contest organizer does not need to pay out money for all contestants.
He can take your cool idea/concept and make money out of it on their own. No strings attached. That’s why I’m always a bit careful with competing in such.

A Candy Crush clone might not be chosen as a winner, but does not harm you that bad, compared to letting some third party “milk” your great game idea.

I just wanted to point out the importance of reading the small print of the contest guidelines and the consequences of competing in the contest, as some developer may not be aware of them.

All your points are good @IQD. Remember that they aren’t giving away the source. They are uploading to the Windows App Store and we get it from there.

Um, I am confused. What do you mean?

I make a game and submit to the app store. I also submit it as an entry to a competition. If (a big IF) my game wins anything, I get some publicity for the game. What’s the catch?

Regarding the source: someone can RE the whole thing anyway, if they really want to get to the in and outs. Ideas, Data and Code cannot be copyrighted anyway.
The source does not make the money, but the idea/concept does.

Sure, but all the ideas and concepts can be used by Microsoft for any purpose they want. They basically “own” your game after uploading. They can just clone your idea/game and you cannot do anything against/about it, as you agreed to the ToS. That’s the thing I’m criticizing.

Isn’t the whole idea of such contest to suck in as much input/ideas as possible? It’s like an incubator.

25k seems to be a good amount of money for Joe “Basement” Coder, but just take it this way: How much money does it cost to develop a game idea/concept? A lot more than that. But for 25k the organizer will get hundreds or thousands of concepts/ideas for that money(assumed there are thousands of contestants, which provided great ones).

I’m not saying that contests are a rip-off, but every developer should decide for themselves.

Read the last sentence of the fine print. They are not obligated to give your game some publicity, even if it won.
They can use everything for THEIR purpose. They will benefit more than you do. The rights are irrevocable.

This is the catch(in case you did not read the fine print):

HOW WILL MY ENTRY BE POTENTIALLY USED?

Other than what is set forth below, we are not claiming any ownership rights to your Entry. However, by submitting your Entry, you:

  • are granting us an irrevocable, royalty-free, worldwide right and license to: (i) use, review, assess, test and otherwise analyze your Entry and all its content in connection with this Contest or the promotion of Microsoft goods and services; and (ii) feature your Entry and all content in connection with the marketing, sale, or promotion of this Contest or Microsoft goods and services (including but not limited to internal and external sales meetings, conference presentations, tradeshows, and screen shots of the Contest Entry in press releases) in all media (now known or later developed);

  • agree to sign any necessary documentation that may be required for us and our designees to make use of the rights you granted above;

  • understand and acknowledge that the Sponsor(s) may have developed or commissioned materials similar or identical to your submission and you waive any claims you may have resulting from any similarities to your Entry;

  • understand that we cannot control the incoming information you will disclose to our representatives in the course of entering, or what our representatives will remember about your Entry. You also understand that we will not restrict work assignments of representatives who have had access to your Entry. By entering this Contest, you agree that use of information in our representatives’ unaided memories in the development or deployment of our products or services does not create liability for us under this agreement or copyright or trade secret law; and

  • understand that you will not receive any compensation or credit for use of your Entry, other than what is described in these Official Rules.

While we reserve these rights, we are not obligated to use your Entry for any purpose, even if it has been selected as a winner.

That’s a tricky one. Does this mean that MS can copy my game idea and I can’t claim anything? Or does it mean that they may have something similar in the pipeline and I waive my claim rights?

The others don’t seem too bad - more of a publicity thing and don’t mind publicity :smile:

Yep, that’s what it means in theory.
Theoretically they can release a similar game as yours, and just say: “sorry, that thing was in development by us long ago”.
Cause of this clause:

and you waive any claims you may have resulting from any similarities to your Entry;

Yes, you cannot claim anything, in case they release an identical game as yours.

How would you prove, that they stole your idea or how do you prove, that your game is just not a “coincidence” with their game? It could have been in development 10 years ago, right?

Even if you can prove it, you already waived your claim right, right?

Such clauses are very very tricky, as you mentioned.

and the “unaided memories”. thing!? They can give your idea to their development departments and work on something similar. “Sorry, can’t remember, that there was some Entry with a similar idea”. But if there was some, you have to take it and cannot claim/sue anyone :wink:
Not too bad, no? :smile:

Always keep in mind, that the rules were written by some lawyers. If you really want to know the consequences, you would need to get in contact with a lawyer.

Any chances there is one on the forum and is reading and understanding this?

Note above all: I’m not a lawyer and it’s just my opinion.

Note above all: I'm not a lawyer and it's just my opinion.

You are a very clever guy! (After the reading all of this)

OK, @IQD has brought up a subject that could be sensitive in nature to the developers submitting contest entries. We have reached out to Microsoft with a link to this thread to seek clarification. I can tell you for sure, however, that the submitted app is NOT, NOT, NOT Microsoft property. I will append this once we talk more.

Don’t tell him that! :slight_smile:

Exactly! Don’t tell him that! He’s a smart a$$ and knows it! :slight_smile:

It would be great to get clarification, definitely, but as I understand many of these contests where the organizer (Microsoft/Chukong in this case)) the legalese is for them to be able to use screenshots, descriptions, and videos wherever they like, with the intent to do so in promotional materials, or meetings where they discuss how well a marketing deal went and such.

I would bet this is only intended as a marketing push for both Microsoft to bring in more and/or better games to their app store as they are behind since most only submit to Apple/Google. If you publish your game in the app store you are already giving everyone, not just the organizers, your game idea as it’s now in the public (see all the clones in the app stores). You are not giving them any source, and code is actually copyrightable (in the US at least) so you could take legal action on code you’ve written being used without your permission.

Assuming you are only publishing it through the regular developer center under your own name and publisher (if you have one) then it looks to me like it’s only intended as an opportunity for you to get publicity and for them to get more apps in their store and promote their platform (Microsoft) and game engine (Chukong).

Of course you should still be hesitant and skeptical as any person should be when signing anything. And IQD’s questions are good to get clarified, but I doubt the legal wording will change as it’s pretty standard for any contest or publisher.

Sure thing. I’m not saying that they have bad things in mind or want to rip-off someone. It’s just that the official rules want more than is needed for such purposes.

But you are not licensing your work to anyone. By taking part in the contest, you are granting Microsoft a irrevocable license for the mentioned usages. This is a very big difference.
As they want the license to be irrevocable, it suggests they have more in mind than pushing their store. They will never tell you that. They could even make it revocable easily, but they don’t, as the want to use your game for various purposes for an unlimited time.

If I’m licensing my work to some third party, I’m agreeing on it. If some dude is using my game/cloning my game based on the app-store appearance, I did not agree to anything with him. Your possibilities to fight it are not that limited, as compared to a licensing deal.

Granting a license for the rights mentioned in the official rules are normally combined with big money. You basically have to pay for them. With the picture of a contest, you are licensing it for free.

Leaving the fact, that publicity for your game is really great and the engine being free aside, why should a developer promote a third party platform for free?
Would a TV station promote a game for free?
Isn’t there big money involved, when it comes to exclusive platform deals?

This all depends on which side of that quid pro quo deal would benefit more than the other. Of course, a fresh, novice, aspiring game developer could see this as a great opportunity, but I think everyone should look at the bigger picture. Would some senior company with a big block buster mobile game sell for less or even agree on such clauses? I don’t think so.

Unfortunately those rules are seen as a standard. That’s why the people turned into the product for so many companies. Being it posting your pictures on some site or presenting your data, you are agreeing(silently by clicking a button) to license the picture or data for various rights. Who’s reading the fine-print anyway, right?

I’m not trying to ruin the fun for anyone or letting contests look bad, it’s just me being very cautious, when I’m reading words like “licensing”, “granting rights” or “without compensation”, but mostly “irrevocable”, “worldwide” and “waiving claims”.

Maybe there are some developers out there, that are not reading the fine-print or even understand, what those clauses really mean for them or their game, but I think we should raise some awareness regarding such things.
Although I admit, that this might not be the optimal place or time to do so.

Can anyone tell me how much time it takes to certification and to get game published to the Windows Phone Store? As it has to be published before May 31, 2015.
Like for Android it takes around 3-5 hr to publish game.
For Apple it takes around 10 days to review.

@iQD If you make game for any platform, you will not be able to stop cloning of your game, right?
and By participating in this contest doesn’t stop you to publish same game for iOS & Android too, right?
:slight_smile:

@slackmoehrle, the back button does work in WP8.1-universal, but not as intended.

It doesn’t do page navigation i.e let you move between scenes. Instead it just suspends the game. This comes up as a red flag at app reviews.

Microsoft’s Service Level Agreement (SLA) for Windows Phone Application Certification on the AppHub is 5 days.

Besides going to court, no. The problem of cloning wasn’t the major point anyways.

Right. It will just stop you from making exclusive deals with other platforms.

Thanks for the info.

:smiley: I wish…